The importance of the discipline of Eschatology within Islam is clearly demonstrated by the fact that two of the five questions of the ‘Gabriel Hadith’1 concerned the Last Day and its Signs.
The learned scholar, Shaykh Imran Husain, has proposed the idea that Gog and Magog have already been released from behind the barrier built by Dhul Qarnayn, by the permission of Allah the Majestic and Exalted. In fact, he argues convincingly in his book, ‘Gog and Magog in the Modern Age’, that the barrier was breached during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (upon him be peace) himself, thus fulfilling the command of Allah the Exalted,
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Questions & Answers
#1 Farhan 2012-02-05 11:25
If g&m are the vikings then how do we correlate that to the yahood (Jews) and also
Who are the khazars and how relevant is their link to the zionists?
Also how will the vikings drink from lake tiberias until it is dry?
#2 Ridhwan Saleem 2012-02-05 11:29
According to my theory, the vikings were the original g&m who were trapped behind the barrier of dhul-qarnayn. When they were released, they colonised european countries especially britain, hence why europe becomes the g&m civilisation. The link to the yahood is that the yahood do not return to the holy land “until g&m are released”, as sh imran has interpreted the verse of quran in surah anbiya.
Therefore, the g&m are supporters of the zionist project. This is why you find britain first setting up the state of israel for the jews, and later america becoming its major defender. This explains why the christian right in america are the most ardent supporters of the zionist state.
The khazars were a turkish people who converted to judaism in the middle ages. I personally do not believe their significance is anything more than that. This is the only point where i differ from sh imran. I respect all his work. The only new thing i believe i am bringing to the table is to identify who g&m were. As mentioned in my article, i was never convinced of the theory of the khazars as being g&m because they simply don’t fill the profile. Even though sh imran has attempted to show that a barrier could have existed in the daryal gorge through the caucasus mountains, i really feel this is farfetched. Even if such a barrier did exist, then it definitely did not prevent the khazar people from moving into surrounding lands. How could a barrier from one direction prevent these people from moving in the other 3 directions? The khazar people were not trapped and blocked off from all surrounding people until the time of the prophet (upon him be peace). I agree with the theory of sh imran and sh anwar shah that the g&m were released during the lifetime of the prophet (upon him be mercy and peace) as mentioned in the saheeh hadith, “today a breach has occured in the barrier of g&m”. The vikings, however, came out of the most northern region beyond the norwegian mountains. We can see that if the mountains were blocked to them, they would be prevented from all other directions by seas [they did not have the technology to build ships at the time], and to the north extreme cold.
We say that the descendants of the vikings are g&m within european cilvisation. Sh imran also identifies europe [and its american offspring] as containing g&m. So here i do not differ with him. The only difference is sh imran identifies the khazars as the original g&m who then infiltrated european civilisation, whereas i identify the vikings as the original g&m who were trapped behind the barrier and infiltrated european civilisation.
As you know, the lake tiberias is getting shallower and shallower. When the last generation of g&m come to drink from it – this will be at the time of prophet isa (upon him be peace) – it will be dried up.
It is just a theory, and i could be wrong. It is up to muslims to evaluate the evidence. And allah knows best.
#3 Khaleel 2012-02-05 11:30
Page 6 last paragraph from the bottom, 5th line from the bottom “knownas” and “Rus” may possibly be typos?
I am unclear as to what your intention behind this study is?
Is it a study of the sheikhs works mentioned?
or is it an extension on their works?
Subhan’Allah I have studied this subject in a fair depth, and other than the assumption or strong likelihood according to your article, that a strong possibility is that the gog, magog are vikings, the work which i have studied is fairly similar.
I can see from your article that you have not completely ruled out another nation capable of such heinous crimes, but one fundamental criticism I have of your article( I am obviously no authority on this matter, please do not be offended) is the lack of islamic evidence used i.e. Quran and Ahadith.
I will get you extensive evidence of gog, magog from ahadith (without hopefully sounding like a wahabi). Which mostly consist of their movements, how many waves of them there will be and their physical descriptions. Insha’Allah
I am going to try to get a hold of the document which is mostly referencing and Quranic text in relation to the gog, magog!
On page 14 you state some very interesting questions, but seem a bit subjective and I think practically impossible to prove. It could seem to the reader that you are directing them to your chain of thought which could easily be seen as subjective. But as a side note I completely understand what you mean. It is a fair assumption, but some form of facts may be required to strengthen those unanswerable questions in the first paragraph!
In regards to the 2 horns argument, I am sure that their must be some form of evidence to support that they used to were the 2 horned helmet, even though it could be coincidence. Maybe?
In regards to the sub-heading ‘The Time Issue’ there is a lot of evidence(hadith ) about their emergence. But you go on to speak about lineage and bloodlines etc.
Forgive me for my forwardness but have you done any research independently into Islamic evidence pertaining to gog magog, from my experience and study I have found that there is a lot of information out there. Please do not take offense to this question, I ask it of you sincerely, and not to cause insult to you or your academic research.
Hopefully the document I get could possibly further supplement your study or even give you a different view point, and Allah knows best.
But Mash’ Allah very well writ, very easy to understand, very easy to follow.
Wallahi my Brother, ALLAH the almighty as my witness I mean to cause no offense by my questioning.
Anything good which comes out of this interrogation of your works is from Allah The Majestic
anything other than good from my questioning is from the accursed and my stupidy.
Look forward to your response.
#4 Ridhwan Saleem 2012-02-05 11:32
Not at all, no offense taken whatsoever, the reason for sending it out to brothers like yourself is precisely to get your feedback, comments etc, which you have done with great sincerity and adab.
With regards to the ahadith about G&M, I have also read extensively on the subject. This is where we need to be really careful about taking what is authentic. Surprisingly, the salafis go on about authentic hadiths, but in books on this subject, they include all sorts of spurious narrations. With regard to Signs of the Last Day, especially, one has to be really careful, because many, many narrations came into the old texts on this subject that were very weak or from Jewish sources. This is why in my article, I focus on the information we have about G&M from Quran and very strong hadiths that come through multiple saheeh chains of transmission.
You cannot get any hadith report stronger than one which has multiple chains in saheeh al bukhari from different Sahaba.
So many things were written in the old books about G&M, such as having huge ears, sharp teeth etc, but it is important to check the authenticity of these narrations.
So I think your point is very relevant, but in fact this is exactly what I try to do – to filter the authentic revelation that we have from weak and often spurious sourc material.
You also asked in what way my article was adding anything. The first part of my article summarises some of Sh Imran’s main ideas, but the big new thing i bring to the table is identifying the G&M as the Vikings and their descendants. Of course it is only a theory, and Allah knows best, but the more I looked into it, the more I became convinced that they were the G&M mentioned in tne Quran, because they fully fit the profile in Quran and authentic hadiths. They came from the furtherst North of the Earth, they came out during the lifetime of the Prophet (upon him be peace), they were spreaders of corruption and fasad, they were the major factor in the rise of the bloody terror that came out of western Europe for 3 centuries, known as the Crusades, and their descendants eventually created the white world order that we live in today.
I do not rule out that other people have also been barbarian like the Vikings, and indeed as I point out in the article, just because the Quran says thet the G&M are people who cause fasad, this does not mean other people in history cannot cause fasad – you see what I mean. It like if I say ‘a bee can sting’, it does not mean no other animal can sting.
However, I do suggest that the Vikings were possibly unique in the level of depravity they sank to in living like wild animals, as evidenced by having sexual activity in public, and fighting one’s parents. These two activities resemble animals more than humans, and I doubt that even other ‘barbarian’ people went down to that level. But, to be honest, I dont have the knowledge to say for certain, which is why I merely ask the question rather than assert it for sure. Either way, it does not affect my argument that the Vikings were G&M, but merely strengthens it if true.
I welcome your comments and questions, jazak Allah khayr.
#5 Khaleel 2012-02-05 11:43
I believe these hadiths have been verified to all be sahih, but i’ll let you be the judge of that,
and one other point is that the gog magog are stated in the prophetic hadiths as coming from the east not the west???
Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah
Book 41, No. 6959
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight with the turks-a people whose faces would be like hammered shields wearing clothes of hair and walking (with shoes) of hair.
Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah
Book 41, No. 7015
An-Nawwas b. Sam’an reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described…
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir with the same chain of transmitters but with this addition that Gog and magog would walk until they would reach the mountain of al-Khamar and it is a mountain of Bait-ul-Maqdis and they would say: We have killed those who are upon the earth. Let us now kill those who are In the sky and they would throw their arrows towards the sky and the arrows would return to them besmeared with blood. And in the narration of Ibn Hujr (the words are):” I have sent such persons (Gog and magog) that none would dare fight against them.
Jihaad, Book 52, No. 179
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair.”
Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions Book 56, No. 787
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The Hour will not be established till you fight a nation wearing hairy shoes, and till you fight the turks, who will have small eyes, red faces and flat noses; and their faces will be like flat shields. And you will find that the best people are those who hate responsibility of ruling most of all till they are chosen to be the rulers. And the people are of different natures: The best in the pre-lslamic period are the best in Islam. A time will come when any of you will love to see me rather than to have his family and property doubled.”
Prophets, Book 55, No. 567 [
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, “Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), ‘O adam.’ adam will reply, ‘Labbaik wa Sa’daik’, and all the good is in Your Hand.’ Allah will say: ‘Bring out the people of the fire.’ adam will say: ‘O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?’ Allah will reply: ‘From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and ninety-nine.’ At that time children will become hoary headed, every pregnant female will have a miscarriage, and one will see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah.” The companions of the Prophet asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! Who is that (excepted) one?” He said, “Rejoice with glad tidings; one person will be from you and one-thousand will be from Gog and Magog.” The Prophet further said, “By Him in Whose Hands my life is, hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise.” We shouted, “Allahu Akbar!” He added, “I hope that you will be one-third of the people of Paradise.” We shouted, “Allahu Akbar!” He said, “I hope that you will be half of the people of Paradise.” We shouted, “Allahu Akbar!” He further said, “You (Muslims) (compared with non Muslims) are like a black hair in the skin of a white ox or like a white hair in the skin of a black ox (i.e. your number is very small as compared with theirs).”
Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh) Book 60, No. 265
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, “On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, ‘O adam!’ adam will reply, ‘Labbaik our Lord, and Sa’daik ‘ Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.’ adam will say, ‘O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?’ Allah will say, ‘Out of each thousand, take out 999.’ At that time every pregnant female shall drop her load (have a miscarriage) and a child will have grey hair. And you shall see mankind as in a drunken state, yet not drunk, but severe will be the torment of Allah.” (22.2) (When the Prophet mentioned this), the people were so distressed (and afraid) that their faces got changed (in color) whereupon the Prophet said, “From Gog and magog nine-hundred ninety-nine will be taken out and one from you. You Muslims (compared to the large number of other people) will be like a black hair on the side of a white ox, or a white hair on the side of a black ox, and I hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise.” On that, we said, “Allahu-Akbar!” Then he said, “I hope that you will be) one-third of the people of Paradise.” We again said, “Allahu-Akbar!” Then he said, “(I hope that you will be) one-half of the people of Paradise.” So we said, Allahu Akbar.”
#6 Ridhwan Saleem 2012-02-05 11:45
jazak Allah khayr for that. The hadiths you sent me do not state that the G&M are turks. The hadiths about muslims fighting turks do not mention G&M at all.
There was no saheeh hadith that you sent me that mentioned G&M coming from the East.
#7 xtermin8r 2012-02-16 15:28
Dear brother ridhwan
I found your article very interesting.i too have been researching gog magog for many years now, and your article confirms some of my own findings.
#8 detox 2012-03-11 05:39
I have reached a similar conclusion as yours from my own look at the prophecys.
I typed the following elsewhere on a forum:
Here’s why I think certain aspects of Moulana Imran Hosein’s thesis needs to be re-considered:-
- To attribute the travels of Dhul Qarnayn to be from one end of caucasian mountain to the other end and then to a gap somewhere in between is quite simplistic. How exactly is that supposed to make him a “great traveller” ? I would expect the travels from east to west to stretch a continent.
- The inhabitants of every side of caucasian mountain are essentially one people. Dhul Qarnayn in his travels to west, east and third direction instead meets different people.
- The caucasian mountain range is inhabited by muslims and had a muslim presence going back even to the time of Khazars.
- The only Khazarian “monsterous evil” attribute was simply that it was a strong defense against muslim incursion into East Europe for sometime. They were defeated later. Not much of a monster to me.
- There seems to be absence of evidence of a mass conversion of Khazars to Jews. The evidence also indicates some conversion to Islam and presence of muslims in the khazar empire. The border of volga region of Russia still has muslim presence. West end half of Khazakastan, bordering Russia, were part of Khazar empire. The capital of khazar empire, Atil, is close to Khazakstan even though in Russia .
- No evidence of Khazar dispersion into every direction as supposed to be in case of gogmagog.
- The black sea is not much of significant indicator since even the baltic sea and caspian sea have brakish water. So the western sea where sun set, can equally be the baltic sea.
Why I think a Scandinavian/viking link to magog has more evidence than khazar
- Gogmagog in the time of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) were still within the barrier. So if they were released during that time, we are supppsed see a people who dispersed in a barbarian way in different directions after the 7th century. The scandinavian through vikings infact did disperse and settle in possibly every part of Europe after the 7th.
- They are the ones who defeated the Khazar empire itself and came to dominate Russia. They weakened the west half of Roman empire.
- Their conversion is more dodgy then Khazar conversion. They chose to convert to christianity because christianity unlike Islam allowed eating swine and drinking alchohol.
- Those regions today have high rate of atheism.
- The scandinavians were a principle force behind crusades. Therefore we see the obsession towards Jerusalem from this. As they settled in other parts of europe, that obsession was carried onto others.
- The scandinavians did associate themselves to be descendants of magog. While khazars associate themselves to be descendant of togarmah, who is only a cousin of magog.
- Scandinavia makes up most of the iron ore deposits of europe. The iron barrier of dhul qarnayn after all requires iron deposites.
I have also made some connection with Israelites, which I then briefed it in a recent blog, which can be read here:
#9 Imran 2012-03-18 05:12
Dear Sidi Ridhwan,
I pray you are well.
JazakAllah khair for your article on the Gog and Magog. I found it very useful and a light with which I can understand the Euro/American forceful dominance of the Muslim world. I understand the US and Australia (and I think Israel too) to be an extension of the European family. Subsquently, I had been wondering if the forceful Euro dominance, militarily and economically, of other parts of the world had been mentioned in ahadith or in the Quran. I wish more ulema would teach and write about this. JazakAllah khair, sidi.
Please do write more. Could I please ask:
1. What are your thoughts on the Sufyani. It appears he is a major precursor to the Mahdi? I have read elsewhere that the hadith mentioning the Sufyani has weakness in it.
(i) In your article you mention, the Messenger of God (Allah bless him and grant him peace) saying that the barrier had been breached and he made a circle with his finger and thumb.
Please forgive me for asking this: was the area he made a figurative size in relation to the whole? If the size was literally taken, one person could not get out of a hole this size!
(ii) Also, in relation to the above: the hadith that I always remember reading about Gog and Magog was that a hole this size would be made and they would never say ‘inshAllah’, and the hole would be covered the next day. But one day they would say ‘inshAllah’ and the hole would not be covered up again and they would escape.
I look forward to hearing from you, wassalamu alaikum.
#10 Ridhwan 2012-03-19 11:33
wa alaikum assalam Br Imran,
Jazak Allah khayr and thank you for your feedback.
I am not an expert on the subject of the Sufyani, but as far as I understand, I do not believe the reports are authentic. According to (western) historians, after Yazid ibn Muawiya the caliphate passed on to a different branch of the Ummayad family. At that time, a movement arose who were supporters of Muawiya’s clan and wished for the ‘good old’ days of early Ummayad rule. It seems that this group developed the idea that a messianic figure known as the ‘Sufyani’ would one day appear to restore the caliphate to Muawiya’s line. [Don’t forget the father of Muawiya was Abu Sufyan). Allah knows best.
With regards to the Prophet (upon him be mercy and peace) making the sign of a hole with his thumb and forefinger, I would interpret this as symbolic of the breach, rather than the actual size of the hole.
The final hadith you mentioned is the hadith of Tirmidhi, in which it is mentioned that G&M dig through the barrier every day and come close to breaching it but, when they return the following day, they find it sealed up again. As I mentioned in my article, Imam Anwar Shah discusses this hadith in Faydul Bari and dismisses it for two reasons:
1. It contradicts what is in more authentic hadiths, ie that the Prophet said that a breach has occurred today in the Barrier of G&M. Clearly this contradicts the hadith of Tirmidhi. Therefore, we take the more authentic narration.
2. Hadith authorities have criticised the Tirmidhi hadith saying that it may not be from the Prophet (upon him be peace) at all, but rather from Ka`b.
#11 sand 2012-03-30 11:44
Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent piece,have you tried to discuss your views on G&M with sheikh imran hosein?
#19 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 15:49
Yes, I have had extensive correspondence with him by email and Skype, alhamdo lillah.
#12 Faqir Alamm 2012-04-22 11:38
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh , MashahAllah What an Amazing Article …
#20 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 15:50
Jazak Allah khayr was-salam
#13 Ihsan 2012-08-07 23:57
Assalyamu Aleikum Sheikh.
Yajuj ua Majuj are Aryan Germanic and Slavic tribes that were known to Romans as Scythians in the Antiquity. The first mention of Scythians was made by Herodotus himself in 4th century BC. He described them as cruel barbarians plunging whole regions of Roman Empire and Middle East.
It is remarkable that Scythians at the time of Herodotus mostly inhabited today’s Russia and frequently plundered North Caucasian region using the Daryal Pass in the Caucasus as the gate to enter into Middle East. It was Cyrus the Great, who presumably is Dhul-Qarnayn, who once and for all stopped Scythian terror in the Middle East.
Archeological and genetic studies done by German and French institutes indicate that Scythians were blonde haired modern white european type, that is, Scythians were ancestors of today’s Germanic tribes (normans, anglo-saxons, franks, goths, alemannians, etc.) and Slavic tribes (rus, polish, czech, serbs, etc).
In fact, it is these germanic and slavic tribes who initiated colonization age and competed in getting every strategic inch (hadabin) on land, sea, air and space under their control. They created the world order we live in today and they contributed the most in getting the jews into the Holy Land.
#22 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 16:52
Jazak Allah khayr and thank you for your comment. I have already mentioned in my article the weaknesses in considering the Barrier to have been in the Caucasus region. The Caucasus mountains simply do not constitute a barrier to trap a tribe of people as there are three other directions that are perfectly traversable.
The Germanic tribes of Europe were not the original G&M. However, once the G&M were released upon Europe during the Viking Age, the G&M (Vikings) interbred extensively with the Germanic peoples of Europe (eg the Anglo-Saxons) and so assimilated into one people.
I think the best way to understand G&M is to realize that they are a civilization, an ummah. Just like the Muslims are one Islamic civilization, one ummah. Hence we realise that the issue of G&M is not a genetic issue, it is not a race issue, which is very important to understand so that we avoid introducing a racist aspect to our understanding of the End Times. As G&M are human beings, they may become Muslim like any other human being. If a descendant of the Vikings becomes Muslim, he enters into the Islamic civilization, or Islamic ummah.
Conversely, a person from any racial background may enter the G&M, or Western, civilization and become part of that ummah.
Personally, I feel there are only two civilizations in the world today, the Western, or G&M, civilization and the Islamic civilization. Others, such as the Indian and Chinese, have incorporated into the global Western G&M civilization. (I could be wrong about this). I think this would explain the hadith that 999 of every one thousand people will enter the Fire, and most will be from G&M.
The key aspect here is the definition of ‘civilization’, which I take to be synonymous with the Arabic term ‘ummah’. The Quran talks about the ‘umam’ (plural of ummah) that passed before us. And the Prophet (upon him be mercy and peace) described the Christians as an ummah and the Jews as an ummah. The Muslims are also one ummah. There is clearly a historic dimension to these umam, so I feel the term ‘civilization’ is apt.
Similarly, G&M are an ummah. They are the civilization that is destined to eclipse the Islamic civilization towards the end of Time and which will finally be destroyed by the direct punishment of Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala from Heaven. May Allah ta`ala make us all from the ummah of Sayyinduna Muhammad (upon him be peace and mercy for all time).
#14 Mohamed 2012-08-09 01:55
Asalaam alaikum, JazakAllah khair for your article on the Gog and Magog. I found it very useful. I just wanted to share with you this interresting hadith, what do you think about it. It correspond with your research about the Viking and the time (middle of 6th century) when Umar died!!!
[Afflictions which will move like the waves of the sea (Might be Gog & Magog) Allah knows best.
I heard Hudhaifa saying, “While we were sitting with ‘Umar, he said, ‘Who among you remembers the statement of the Prophet about the afflictions?’ Hudhaifa said, “The affliction of a man in his family, his property, his children and his neighbors are expiated by his prayers, Zakat (and alms) and enjoining good and forbidding evil.” ‘Umar said, “I do not ask you about these afflictions, but about those afflictions which will move like the waves of the sea.” Hudhaifa said, “Don’t worry about it, O chief of the believers, for there is a closed door between you and them.” ‘Umar said, “Will that door be broken or opened?” I said, “No. it will be broken.” ‘Umar said, “Then it will never be closed,” I said, “Yes.” We asked Hudhaifa, “Did ‘Umar know what that door meant?” He replied, “Yes, as I know that there will be night before tomorrow morning, that is because I narrated to him a true narration free from errors.” We dared not ask Hudhaifa as to whom the door represented so we ordered Masruq to ask him what does the door stand for? He replied, “‘Umar.” (Bukhari V.9 B.88-216)
*The government of Umar was more or less a unitary government, where the sovereign political authority was the Caliph. The empire of Umar was divided into provinces and some autonomous territories like in some regions Azerbaijan, Armenia and caucasus, that had accepted the suzerainty of the Caliphate. The provinces were administered by the provincial governors or Wali. The selection of which was made personally by Umar, who was very fastidious in it.
#15 Fahad 2012-09-01 14:33
MashaAllah, you have presented a well researched theory. I didn’t seen any mention about the identity of Dhul Qarnain in your article. While Sheikh Imran Hossein has identified him to be Cyrus of Persia, and his theory fits well with the travels of Cyrus. If we assume Vikings to be G&M, then the identity of Dhul Qarnain and his famous travles remain a question. Please provide your insight on the above subject. Thanks.
#24 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 17:26
Wa alaikum assalam Br Fahad, thank you for your insightful comment. As mentioned briefly in my article and in a recent blog post, I do not find the idea of the Caucasus range being the location of the Barrier to be plausible, and the theory of Cyrus as Dhul-Qarnayn rests on this premise. If the Barrier was in the Caucasus and G&M were trapped behind it, there is no reason why they could not travel around it in three other directions!
If Allah has guided me to the correct opinion about the Vikings being the original G&M people, I would consider Dhul Qarnayn to have been a prehistoric figure who may have lived 8-10,000 years ago. This was the earliest time that humans could have lived in Scandinavia as the Ice Age would have prevented habitation prior to this.
I agree with Sh Imran Hosein that Dhul Qarnayn was one of the few (if not only) leader in human history who was given global dominion. The reason why I suspect he lived 8-10,000 years ago is because the world at that time was still one huge land mass. The American continent was still accessible via a land bridge. This means Dhul Qarnayn could have literally traveled to the furthest West and furthest East as the Quran seems to indicate. And Allah knows best.
#16 Nabeel Aejaz 2012-09-04 15:19
Thought you would like to see this (look at the bottom in the map for Yajooj Majooj):
#23 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 17:13
Jazak Allah khayr, this is fascinating. Clearly, Idrisi had the idea that G&M were at the furthest North of the Earth.
#17 Detox 2012-11-01 19:54
In your lecture you mentioned that some of Christians during the time of the Viking age did identify the Vikings as Gog-Magog. Could you point me the reference to this ?
#18 Anon 2013-08-04 12:26
So we’re in agreement that the cacausians are decendents of gog and Magog. But we do not know who they’re decendent from, scythians or Vikings?
#25 Ridhwan 2013-08-04 17:35
Once the Vikings had colonized various parts of Europe, they extensively interbred with the host populations of Europe.
#21 Anon 2013-08-04 16:23
No this is too far fetched. Norway is at the end of the earth and he needed to get by the gates of Alexander and travel thousands of kilometres to get to the Vikings. I think it was the scythians and khazars
#26 Detox 2013-08-04 19:30
There is another connection I would like to mention. There are some narrations like in Musnad of Imam Ahmed, that says the Gog-Magog are descendant of Turks (Yafeth) (not to be equated with modern Turkey). And so the studies that show the Scandinavians to be a descendant of Scythians, is not something that should be a problem and in my view agrees with the narrations that describe GogMagog as Turks. And this connection is also the one in the Bible.
The Wikipedia entry does show early Christian writers connecting Magog with Scandinavians:
#27 Brother 2013-08-05 05:14
The Caucasus mountains simply do not constitute a barrier to trap a tribe of people as there are three other directions that are perfectly traversable.
Tell me how it’s possible for dul qurnian to have travelled ALL the way to Norway on his horse. And if its 10000 years ago there wouldn’t be any domesticated horses. And no one would know how to smelt iron
This was a long time ago. We don’t know the condition of the Caucasus back then. It may have been blocked by some sort or by snow. The scythians and Samaritans are the only plausible explanation. The khazars are the direct gog. But I don’t know who Magog is and I dispise people who say its Russia.
I’m sorry but shiek imran is the only logical one here
How can Magog be Russia???
#28 Ridhwan 2013-08-06 05:01
You may have a valid point about pre-Iron Age. I would like to stress that the figure of 8-10,000 is pure conjecture at this stage, and may be completely wrong.
However, I stated that I believe he is a ‘pre-historic’ figure. Please check the definition of ‘prehistoric’. The point is that we know next to nothing about prehistory.
It is estimated that modern humans have been around for about 200,000 years. We don’t know anything about those past people. For all we know, some people in the past may have been more scientifically and technologically advanced than today’s arrogant fools.
The schoolboy textbook version of how humans evolved through hunter-gatherer, farming, domesticating animals, etc until we get to the modern Western man is a 19th century fairy tale invented by the hubris of modern European white man.
To understand how much conjecture goes into the writing of history in modern textbooks, we need to go back to the discipline of historiography.
#29 Brother 2013-08-09 23:43
Sorry I meant scythians and sarmatians*
I just looked at the Norwegian mountains and let me tell you they’re not that hard to scale. Infact many people do it everyday not to mention skiing. The whole mountain range is a collection of snow and barren top. I don’t think there’s any iron reserves in the whole mountain range. There are also rivers by that are not that hard to swim or boat by. Remember prophet Noah built a boat to escape the flood? The Vikings were pirates right? Couldn’t they cross those waters to nearby land? Trust me those range aren’t that hard to climb let alone jump past a barrier.
Now the caucaus is a whole mountain. The Norwegian area are a collection of land, sea and land. There’s no “scandanaivan mountains”. The caucaus however is one of the few highest on earth. The mountain pass is known for the name “gate” throughout all cultures. Now if you say that’s lie ie. fabrication by the people of the book AND Persians ok.
The caucaus mountains are very high impossible to scale climb. There’s vast amount of iron and minerals. The pass isn’t that big to fill. Remember dul qurnian was traveling. I don’t think he had time to fill miles of area. The Scandinavian mountains or area are vast collection of rivers and land. It’s very had to jump past those.
I think you should take a look at the area through google earth. It’s not that hard to climb and the Vikings had boats remember?
#30 Brother 2013-08-10 00:06
Sorry mean there’s no true “Scandinavian mountains”
Exhibit A: http://www.scandinavianmountains.com/images/hero/generic.jpg
#31 Brother 2013-08-10 00:12
caucasus mountains Georgia
#32 Brother 2013-08-10 00:30
Exhibit B: remember those things at the bottom are houses. Now all Dul qurnian needed to do is find a “narrow” area and fill it up with iron and molten copper. The Darial Gorge (Darial originates from Dar-e Alān (در الان) meaning Gate of the Alans in Persian. The gorge, alternatively known as the Iberian Gates or the Caucasian Gates, is mentioned in the Georgian annals under the names of Darialani; Strabo calls it Porta Caucasica and Porta Cumana; Ptolemy, Fortes Sarmatica; it was sometimes known as Porta Caucasica and Portae Caspiae (a name bestowed also on the “gate” or pass beside the Caspian Sea at Derbent); and the Tatars call it Darioly.) which lies remains of ancient fortress is the perfect size.
#33 Brother 2013-08-10 00:33
Forget about the prehistoric “For all we know, some people in the past may have been more scientifically and technologically advanced than today’s arrogant fools.” time
#34 Brother 2013-08-10 01:45
You’re forgetting another group of people that plundered, pillaged, raped and occupied 1/3 of the world in less than 100 years.
“In various times Mongolic peoples have been equated with the Scythians, the Magog and the Tungusic peoples. Based on Chinese historical texts the ancestry of the Mongolic peoples can be traced back to the Donghu, a nomadic confederation occupying eastern Mongolia and Manchuria.”
Remember Allah swt said 999/1000 will be from hell fire.
#35 Brother 2013-08-10 02:30
Sorry for the long post
Let’s get this straight. The only people who are not Gog and Magog are the decendents of Noah’s sons Ham and Shem. Meaning Africans, Negros, Arabs, Greeks (Socrates was a prophet who was send to the Athenians) and The Aboriginals.
#36 Brother 2013-08-10 02:32
And Allah knows best.